Death of the internet

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helgrrr
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Re: Death of the internet

Postby helgrrr » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:02 pm

Gruul wrote:
I hate it because it makes people even more annoying than they normally are...
I didn't realise that was possible tbh
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Naggly Nagger
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Re: Death of the internet

Postby Naggly Nagger » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:35 pm

Gruul wrote:
Naggly Nagger wrote:And i'll add that the government has no business trying to govern the internet.


What's your logic here? What's illegal in real life is still illegal in the internet - frauds, scams, slander, spreading bomb-making instructions - and police (as an extension of government) are very much required to uphold the law even online. Internet isn't some magic wonderland where everything goes, it's just the newest version of public media, it's predecessors being newspapers, radio and tv...


You're taking that out of context, but..
I should have used the term politicians instead of government, it was late :P Of course what is illegal in real life is still illegal on the internet...and should and will be upheld by state and local government, or even federal. Also i should have stated monitor / control, instead of govern.

This SOPA/PIPA is just an extension of the patriot act, essentially. Dont have time now to elaborate, until next time :P

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Gruul
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Re: Death of the internet

Postby Gruul » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:45 pm

Naggly Nagger wrote:You're taking that out of context, but..
I should have used the term politicians instead of government, it was late :P Of course what is illegal in real life is still illegal on the internet...and should and will be upheld by state and local government, or even federal. Also i should have stated monitor / control, instead of govern.

This SOPA/PIPA is just an extension of the patriot act, essentially. Dont have time now to elaborate, until next time :P


It wouldn't have made a difference whether it was "politicians" or "government" since politicians in essence ARE the government. Neither would "monitor" since they already do that. "Control" on the other hand - now there's a valid argument to be made, one that really boils down to censorship. You could argue that the internet is an extension of the freedom of the press and government has no right to censor it - however they can penalise you for misusing it.

And Patriot Act - now there's a topic worthy of its own thread. I'm sure Razor has a few entertaining opinions about that specific gem of legislation. :P I'd make fun of it but since fear mongering is sweeping across Europe as we speak that might hit a bit too close to home... :(
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Ahnull Bahrd
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Re: Death of the internet

Postby Ahnull Bahrd » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:13 pm

helgrrr wrote:Just for a slghtly different perspective Ahnull

I used to have a worker ant job, I rode around on a motorbike in the freezing cold delivering parcels.

When I realised after 15 years of this that eventually I would die under a truck one day, I asked to move into the office as a warm dry worker ant for very little pay. I'd never wanted an office job but as it turned out I was bloody good at it. I worked hard got promoted and within 18 months managed to get propelled into a middle to upper management role with a fair wedge of cash.

I then spent 5 years with the 400 people who had up until that point been fairly good mates looking daggers at me and muttering thats where our payrise went, loud enough for me to hear every time I walked past.

If I was the sort to get upset by stupid remarks or naive enough to think I didn't need to find knew friends it would have been a bloody lonely and crappy few years.

Towards the end one of the main mutterers got promoted into a similar role to me, he lasted four months before he asked to be demoted again because it was too hard. He did at least have the good grace to apologise for all the shit he had dished out.

Everyone thought I got promoted because I had a friend in management and did no work at all. I was paid for 8 hours a day 5 days a week. I did 13 hours a day, at weekend if there was a problem I got called, In the middle of the night if there was a problem I got called, Usually at Christmas and new year there were no staff so the phones were transferred to my home and I ran the company from there. We operated 24/7.

I increased the companies gross margin from 35% to 42% thus ensuring that everyone got a decent payrise every year.

There are a lot of really crap people in middle management who do absolutely nothing, but before you make their lives hell make sure you pick the right one.


I'm not the embittered, snipe of a worker ant that your former colleagues were H, it'd take harm to family and loved ones to get me to even attempt to make anyone's life hell really :) Its just that I see the good people who come in and work hard without vying for position and playing office politics getting stepped on/by-passed at best, and at worst openly stitched up.

The building trade is full of backstabbers, its all one massive blamegame and the guys who are usually the shittest at doing the real job, are also the best and well-practised at blaming everyone else for it all going wrong. The less you try and play the social-engineering/office politics game, the easier a target you are for the ones that do. Maybe this is me being naive but I hold myself to a higher standard and I won't join in with it. If I find myself a financial casualty of actually having a moral spine at the minute, I'm young and stupid enough to accept it.

I'm not daft. I know that I've combined the worst elements of all my customers/colleagues/bosses and made this imaginary 'enemy' character that no one in the real world is quite as bad as. I think its how I keep myself straight and true though, I have a good idea of EXACTLY how I don't want to act and who I don't want to be.
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Ahnull Bahrd
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Re: Death of the internet

Postby Ahnull Bahrd » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:25 pm

Gruul wrote:How big of a difference is there in a salary between workers and middle management (or upper management for that matter)? I know people keep complaining that work (or education, depending who's complaining) doesn't pay off here but does it anywhere in Europe?

Rough estimate of Finnish monthly salaries:
800e unemployed
1200e - 1800e shittiest jobs you can imagine: cleaners, janitors, waitresses...
1800e - 2200e "worker ants": your average factory worker
2200e - 2500e most jobs: teachers (5+ years of university required), nurses etc
2500e - 3000e heavy manual labor: construction workers, dock workers (no education whatsoever required)
3000e - 4000e most professionals: engineers, professors, middle management
4000e - 6000e the high paying "honest" jobs: doctors, senior management
6000e - 10000e the "dishonest" jobs: politicians, lawyers, prostitutes
13300e the president

Progressive taxation (peaking at 55%) makes sure that in reality the difference is much smaller than that (construction workers get 2000e, doctors 3000e). Doesn't really stop people from being envious but still, it doesn't make THAT much of a difference...


My issue lies more with the class system that I realise exists more and more within my own industry. The casual disrespect offered to the guys who are basically the support beams of a business and the culture of fear that the nail that stands tallest gets hammered that keeps us all belted up and stuck in the rut of being abused, haha.

Wait till theres acutally jobs out there to go for. As things start to pick up there'll be a lot of guys set companies up and steal the entire workforce away from these shitbox companies that have been messing people around just because they can whilst theres 20 people lining up for every desk in the building.

[edit] Truthfully, its just a human problem that the people who enjoy emotional sadism have more motivation than most of us to be 'above' people and in charge of other people. Where else would they actually be happy? To quote the simpsons movie:

"Sir, you've gone mad with power!"
"Of course I have! You ever tried going mad without power? Its boring, no one listens"
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Dawkinson
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Re: Death of the internet

Postby Dawkinson » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:00 pm

Gruul wrote:
Dawkinson wrote:Gruul, are you saying you hate Wikipedia because it lets people have knowledge which they don't deserve?


I hate it because it makes people even more annoying than they normally are...


Sounds like a case of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superiority_complex :mrgreen:

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Gruul
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Re: Death of the internet

Postby Gruul » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:19 pm

Dawkinson wrote:Sounds like a case of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superiority_complex :mrgreen:


Nah, I'm just plainly superior. For starters, I dont have those pesky human emotions or empathy that seems to cloud everyone else's mind. I live in a world of science, math and logic even though the rest of the world seems to be much more interested in useless shit like American Idol or Big Brother (yes, the Finnish version is still going strong). I'd add sports to that list but at least they have a function as redirecting tribal rivalry behavior into something non-violent. My biggest worry is getting bored and that's where video games come in. Otherwise I'd be forced to entertain myself in other ways - like say unauthorized psychological human testing. Or some brain surgery. That HAS to be fascinating...
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yakamishi
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Re: Death of the internet

Postby yakamishi » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:07 pm

Gruul wrote:
Naggly Nagger wrote:And i'll add that the government has no business trying to govern the internet.


What's your logic here? What's illegal in real life is still illegal in the internet - frauds, scams, slander, spreading bomb-making instructions - and police (as an extension of government) are very much required to uphold the law even online. Internet isn't some magic wonderland where everything goes, it's just the newest version of public media, it's predecessors being newspapers, radio and tv...



I absolutely love this!
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RazorMasticator
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Re: Death of the internet

Postby RazorMasticator » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:46 am

your under the whip gruul... way way way to standard of a person to claim that sentence in its entirety

alas, the sopa/pipa bill is on the retreat... for now

i was hoping for a global meltdown followed by legions of people overthrowing their governments and the world boycutting america untill they behave themselves, oh well... maybe next time :D
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